Category Archives: Turkey Mountain

Simon Malls Withdraws Proposal to Put an Outlet Mall on Turkey Mountain

Wagon Wheel Lake on Turkey Mountain

Great news for those of us who love Turkey Mountain. The City of Tulsa announced that Simon Property Group has formally withdrawn their proposal to build an outlet mall on Turkey Mountain and will pursue building the shopping center in the Tulsa suburb of Jenks. I love that Simon came to their senses. Building a shopping center on the mountain was a very stupid idea for a bunch of reasons. Kudos to a lot of people and organizations and especially the Tulsa Urban Wilderness Coalition for getting this stopped. It is not often in Oklahoma that the people step up and say no to big business on something dumb like this. Their efforts got a lot more people into the park which made things kind of crowded sometime but I think people realized what a treasure we whad.

Tulsa World Article Tulsa Frontier Article

Yogi’s Den Previous Posts on the Outlet Mall

KTUL.com – Tulsa, Oklahoma – News, Weather

Simon Property Group Pulls Plug on Turkey Mountain Outlet Mall

Have you heard the news!! Simon Property Group is abandoning their Turkey Mountain outlet mall project. They are going to put it in a much more appropriate site in the Tulsa suburb of Jenks. Read about it here. A site that people repeatedly brought up during the discussions on the project. The site should work better for Simon. You can also read more info here to learn how to enhance the view of property with the help of experts.

Of course the city of Jenks will get the sales tax revenue, or at least the promise of it given the huge subsidies that Simon was looking for in terms of paying for infrastructure and other types of corporate welfare they were looking for to help with the economics of the their project.

I couldn’t be happier for all involved. Now comes the real work. Money needs to be raised to buy the remaining land on Turkey Mountain at market value in order to preserve it. Tulsa is growing and it is just a matter of time before somebody else tries to develop it. It is not fair to the landowners to expect them to provide people like me free land to enjoy.

In the meantime, I’m happy that Simon came to their senses. I don’t think they expected the buzzsaw of opposition that they riled up with their proposal. I’m also proud of my fellow Tulsans. Despite Oklahoma’s populist roots, large corporations do pretty much what they want to do in Oklahoma these days. It is nice to see a little push back in a case like this where something bad was fixing to happen (as we say in Oklahoma.)

Public Meeting on the Outlet Mall on Turkey Mountain

Tuesday night I went to a public meeting regarding Simon Group’s plans to put an outlet mall on Turkey Mountain. It was hosted by the City Councilor from the area, Jeannie Cue a very energetic and impressive woman. She made sure everybody who wanted to say something got to say it. There were other people there from the city including some planning staffers and Clay Bird of Tulsa’s office of Economic Development.

The bravest guy there was a local attorney representing Simon. He was hedging his bets a little bit speaking of Simon in the third person.

The city wants more businesses especially retail. The development guy, Clay Bird, said that Tulsa gets all its income from sales taxes. So retail is something that they target. I get that. I think most people get it, they just don’t want a mall on Turkey Mountain. Bird didn’t seem to grasp why. He kept saying things about it would only take up a little bit of the mountain and surely we could co-exist with the mall. That wasn’t really well received.

He lost the crowd though when he tossed out an idea that a parking garage could be built on the mountain to accommodate both mall shoppers and park users. People couldn’t believe it and let him have it. He recovered quickly with a quip about maybe putting a climbing wall on the side of the garage. He’s a good guy but he doesn’t get the concept of wilderness. Hiking, biking, or running on Turkey Mountain is not like doing the same in a public park. One needs the sense of space and remoteness and isolation.

During the Q&A it quickly became apparent that the overwhelming majority of people were okay with malls just not on the mountain. One comment that brought cheers was “It is the right project in the wrong place.” There was a lot of emotion against the mall. One guy spoke up for it pointing out that it is private property and he thought this was America. He got a smattering of applause.

And that brings up the whole problem. We may be able to get Simon to go away but the property is still private and it is zoned for development. As one questioner commented, we better be ready to buy the property if the mall fails. Amen. Anyone can see why Simon is interested in the property. It is near the confluence of two major highways in a hot area of town.

A spokesman for the Greater Tulsa YMCA read a Statement from the their Board of Directors stating their opposition unless Simon makes some concessions. They are asking about assurances on storm water management, water quality, setbacks, and maximum allowed building height. The proposed mall, as it is designed will loom over the YMCA’s Westside Y Day Camp unless changes like these are made.

It is kind of hard seeing how this can proceed. Through the efforts of such groups as the Urban Wilderness Coalition it seems that the profile of Turkey Mountain as something good is being raised. I can tell you that the park is being used considerably more than what it was even last year. I’m seeing lots of families out and about in the park.

Personally I think Simon Property Group should abandon their project. And then it will be up to people of Tulsa to acquire the property at a fair price.

Extra Information

NewsOn6.com – Tulsa, OK – News, Weather, Video and Sports – KOTV.com |

Channel 6 was there

And Channel 5 was there

Tulsa World report on the meeting

http://www.tulsaworldtv.com/?ndn.trackingGroup=91468&ndn.siteSection=tulsa_nws_loc_sty_pp&ndn.videoId=28738404&freewheel=91468&sitesection=tulsa_nws_loc_sty_pp&vid=28738404

More on the Outlet Mall on Turkey Mountain

I’m such a slacker. The Tulsa Urban Wilderness Coalition held a very successful cleanup on Turkey Mountain today (Saturday). I didn’t make it because I took son to his horseback riding lessons and then to his Improv class. I went by the main parking lot at Turkey Mountain over an hour late and it was cram full. So I drove up close to where Simon Property Group is planning to put their “Upscale Outlet Mall” (Whatever that is) and took off with my camera.

I started at the natural gas pipeline right of way. The pipeline had been marked. This is a safety procedure. Generally anywhere in the country if you are going to dig or drill or do anything that might affect underground structures, you call a number. In Oklahoma it is” 1-800 Call Okie” and tell them where you are going to dig or drill and anybody who has underground utilities will send someone out to locate their lines. It keeps everybody safe.

So anyway the pipeline company located the line and cleared out their right of way a little bit.

I wandered around and found where the contractors hired by Simon Property Group had moved their equipment in. I have to tell you that this is somewhat of a “me to” post as two excellent bloggers have already told this story. Ken, aka “Trail Zombie” one of the leaders of Tulsa’s thriving trail and ultra running community has posted on …..miles to go before I sleep… as well as Bob Doucette who has a great outdoors oriented blog proactiveoutside, Check them out. They both bring a lot of passion to the situation on Turkey Mountain.

I followed the track and found some of what I would call gratuitous damage. Damage that was done for no purpose. Keep in mind that this is not public land, it is private land so I guess they can do whatever the landowner will stand for. Still, I spent years building pipelines all over Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi and I never met a landowner who would stand for this kind of damage during the survey process.

This tree was documented by both Trail Zombie and Bob. TZ measured it at 31 inches across. It seems to me that it was cut down just for the fun of it.

These survey sticks with the ribbons seem to be where they are drilling for cores.

More needless damage.

Here is the core drilling rig and the Bobcat used to clear the path for the rig. They were taking the day off on Saturday. Or what the heck maybe the crew was participating in the cleanup.

A closeup of the drilling rig.

And some other equipment in the brush.

And some logs cut into firewood length.

After a while I came to the northernmost basket on the Westside Y’s disk golf course.

Right nearby were these three sticks together. I wondered if this might be the northern boundary of the proposed mall property.

Right adjacent to it was this ancient fence line.

I ventured further to see if I could find any other damage. I didn’t see any and eventually came upon the edge of the Westside Y proper. This is Lake Logan.

Backtracking, these ribbons caught my eye. They were marking the waterway that feeds Lake Logan.

I followed them upstream for quite a ways. I’m guessing it was well marked to make sure they didn’t get their equipment didn’t get in there. What I’m afraid of is that all the construction upstream would cause a lot of runnoff into the Y’s lake where they have a popular day camp in the summer.

As I followed the waterway I saw some of these survey stakes very close to the water course. I’m anticipating that very soon the Bobcat will be clearing a trail down to the creek in several places so that the drilling rig can take some core samples.

If Simon Property Group is allowed to build their mall then this trail and others in the area are going to not be there any longer.

What to do?

Contact the Mayor, Dewey Bartlett

Find out who your Council Member is and tell them what you think.

Tell Simon Property Group what you think about their proposal

Check out the Tulsa Urban Wilderness Coalition

Question: If it is private land can’t the landowners do whatever they want with it?

Sure, especially in Oklahoma. It is anticipated though that they will want special tax breaks and subsidies for the infrastructure needed plus improved roads to the site. Simon Property Group is a very wealthy company. If they want to build a mall while spoiling a major part of Turkey Mountain then I don’t want to subsidize them with my tax dollars.

Question: Should the landowner be expected to continue to provide the land for the trails for free?

Of course not. Tulsa needs to buy the land and other tracts not already owned by the city or the George Kaiser Family Foundation if it is to be protected long term. Where will the money come from? I don’t know. I do know that things that are a priority get funded.

Question: Am I against outlet malls or against development?

No I am not outlet malls. I think Turkey Mountain is the wrong place to put one. My preference would be to put it somewhere where it doesn’t affect outdoor recreation. I also think Simon Property Group is a responsible company. They own and operate Woodland Hills Mall near where I live. I don’t think they are making a good choice by pursuing the Turkey Mountain site.

Turkey Mountain – Still Saying No to the Mall

Since the controversy erupted about Simon Properties‘ plans to put an 800,000 square foot outlet mall on Turkey Mountain you would think that all there is on Turkey Mountain is trails. Goodness knows there are trails on Turkey Mountain.

There are big wide trails and there are very faint, barely used, tracks through the grass and brush and everything in between.

The trails are used by runners, walkers, hikers, bikers, and even a few unicyclers. There is a lot more than trails on Turkey Mountain. Yep.

There are petroglyphs. I had heard about them and it took me a while to find but I finally found them.

Some say they were made by the vikings way back when or the Celts. Who knows. I think such things are a lot more interesting than anything I have found in an outlet mall.

What do you think?

I’ll tell you something else that goes on up on the mountain. Logan and I went up there to check our geocache in an area called Rock City. We found a several guys up there with their radio controlled jeeps negotiating the rocks. It was pretty darned interesting watching them maneuver their cars around the various obstacles.

Now that beats the pants off an outlet mall any day. Well guess what. I’m not really sure but if that mall goes in I am thinking that Rock City will be part of the mall. Yep, the best you can hope for is a Nike discount store. Buy two get a third half off is my motto.

Do you know what else goes on up there. Geocaching and geocaching is all about families and being outside and adventure. Kiss that goodbye also.

And you know something else, geocaching is all about whimsy and serendipity. You won’t find any elves doors at the mall. Not one you could afford anyway. This one is free. It is on a pretty darn steep slope. Find the cache with one hand and hold for dear life with other is the method I recommend.

Know what else? How about an Oklahoma Rock? It is probably safe from the bulldozers, for now at least. You know how it is, haters have to hate, and developers have to develop. It’s in the Bible somewhere. I think.

The thing about Turkey Mountain is that is not a real wilderness. It has old abandoned farms, cisterns, fields, and lots of oilfield. I think it used to be kind of an outlaw kind of place that is slowly going back to nature. If only we would let it.

There are lots of ghosts up on the mountain. You can almost see them at certain times late in the evening when almost everbody has gone home. There is an air of mystery about it.

Anyway Turkey Mountain is unique. A wilderness within sight of downtown. It is important to keep it that way. An outlet mall can go anywhere. If you think we need one of course. We’ve been doing fine without is my opinion. Here is a little more information on the matter.

And here is a Online Petition opposing the location of the mall. Check it out.

And here is some information about the George Kaiser Family Foundation regarding their property on Turkey Mountain. They own 139 acres and pledge not to develop it. Lots of people thought that the acquisition happendd this week and that the mall is prevented. Actually, if I understand correctly, they have owned the property for some time. I guess that I have a little take on their announcement. I see it as a head nod to Simon to go ahead and send the bulldozers in, we won’t oppose you. I guess I’m a little cynical maybe. The Foundation has been really good to Tulsa They are a great supporter of the Turkey Mountain but I detect a note of surrender in their announcement. The foundation is putting together a mammoth park project on the River Parks called A Gathering Place for Tulsa. It will cost over $300 million and will be wonderful. Check out the Link.

And here is the City Council and Tulsa Mayor web sites. Drop’em a line. Let them know how you feel.

Other Resources

Trail Zombie’s Post concerning the environmental impact.

The Tulsa Voice article referenced in Trail Zombie’s Post

New Facebook Page – Forgotten Malls of Tulsa reminding us that all malls have a lifecycle and it doesn’t last very long.

Blog Post by Bob Doucette on zoning and land use

Saying No to an Outlet Mall on Turkey Mountain

There is big news here in Tulsa, Simon Property Group wants to build an “Upscale Outlet Mall” here. That is just great. We need economic development and jobs and investment and all that good stuff. I just have one problem with the concept.

They want to build it on Turkey Mountain right near the Turkey Mountain Wilderness Park. The outlet mall is going to be huge, covering 53 acres. Simon Properties Woodland Hills Mall is a little over 60 acres. As near as I can tell the spot where I took the photo above would be inside the outlet mall.

It is going to ruin a lot of things about Turkey Mountain. The one place in Tulsa where one can get away from it all.

Turkey Mountain is home to a lot of critters, Everything from snakes, turtles, and deer to…

… thousands of people: geocachers (above), hikers, runners, bicyclist, Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts and just people wanting to go get their heads clear.

This is the wrong place to build an outlet mall. There are other places in the city where it wouldn’t have such a drastic effect.

I know that it is private property and I’m all for property rights as anyone else but not when it has such a drastic effect on the adjoining property. Plus it is anticipated that Simon Properties will be demanding subsidies and special tax treatment to make their project feasible. (Why is it that giving money to starving people is welfare and giving money to multi-billion dollar companies is incentives?) I don’t know about you but I’m not really wanting to provide incentives to somebody to destroy a wilderness and pave it over.

So, I will be writing to the Mayor and writing and talking to my City Councilor and contacting Simon Properties Group to see if they can make a wiser decision on locating their new Outlet Mall.

I am saying No to the Turkey Mountain site. Build in Tulsa if you wish, but do it somewhere else.

What about you? Have you ever fought City Hall on anything?

A Nice Run Spoiled on Turkey Mountain

I had Friday off. Everybody at the house was snoozing away so I geared up and headed off to Turkey Mountain. The weather was glorious with the sun shining, no wind, and low temperatures.

I don’t generally get to run in the morning and I headed off on the Yellow Trail.

The Arkansas River was up a little and the vistas from the trail was beautiful. And then,

I came across my old friend turtle. At least I thought he was my friend. He wasn’t too friendly and took off.

I would have thought that he could have at least slowed down for a few hundred yards to visit but I’m way too slow for him.

Have you ever had to deal with an unfriendly turtle?

A Sunday view: A few of the trails of Turkey Mountain

Scavenger Hunt Sunday – Turkey Mountain Automated Pancake Edition

Where I Stand

That is where I was standing Saturday morning. I took son up on Turkey Mountain. We took the blue trail, a short 1.5 mile loop.

Pink

Pink is the color of the free bikes available on the River Parks in Tulsa.

Technology

4H is an awesome organization. They are even tackling our country’s STEM (Science, Technology, Engineering, Mathematics) manpower (and womanpower!) shortage.

Something New

An automated pancake grill. Keeping America Strong!

Favorite Place

My favorite place, besides the beach which is a long way from where I live so it doesn’t really count, is Turkey Mountain in Tulsa. An urban wilderness.

Scavenger Hunt Sunday

Running and Thinking on Turkey Mountain

Last Wednesday I used my weekly kitchen pass to go run on Turkey Mountain. It was a good day to run on the mountain because it was pretty windy and the trees on the mountain cut the wind by a lot. It also looked like rain was coming. If it is warm I don’t mind getting wet but I’m not fond of electrocution so I won’t run in the rain if there is thunder and lightning. Lightning has the potential to ruin your entire day. I figure my odds are better on the mountain than down on the River Trails.

I’ve gotten lazy with the running. I like to do it in the morning. I also like to drink coffee check on other people’s blogs, poke fun at the liberals and tea partiers on facebook, and read the paper. Somehow I’m spending more time sitting on my butt than running. I can tell by my waistline and by my running.

Running is a total feedback thing. The more you do, the better you get, the less you do, the worse you do. Plus as your weight goes up, that just makes it harder.

Trail running is fun. Once I get a quarter mile down the trail from the parking lot I hardly see anybody. I see bicyclists but very few other runners. When the weather is iffy I don’t see hardly anybody. I like being by myself but I wonder sometime if I fell and broke or twisted something what I would do. When I’m up there I don’t worry about it though.

I’ve never seen a threatening person on the mountain. I’ve come across a few homeless camps but the people living there are nowhere to be seen. To me it would be a lousy place for a homeless camp. There is no potable water up there, there are no food stores or convenience stores anywhere close. Plus runners are notoriously cheap, except for their running gear, so they would poor marks for panhandling.

I’m on Instagram (@yogiab) and every once in a while I check #turkeymountain to see who is posting what up there and last week I saw somebody posted a photo with some sort of caption about getting high on turkey mountain. The picture looked like some sort of pipe that looked kind of druggy to me. That actually simultaneously annoyed and chilled me. To my knowledge none of my family and friends uses illegal drugs. I guess that I lead a protected life. The other thing was “What the heck are you doing getting high on drugs on my Mountain!!!“

Plus I was frustrated. Why would somebody do illegal drugs? I don’t get it.

Well anyway, it was getting dark when I got back to the parking lot. Time to go home!

I’m linking up with Our World Tuesday

Turkey Mountain Geocache Madness

You know how Harry Potter has a messenger owl? You thought that was make believe? Shows what you know. I have a Messenger Mutt. Messenger Mutts are for people like me who are too cheap to buy an owl. My Messenger Mutt was given to us. Her name is Abby. Isn’t she a cutie? She is not as cool as an owl and she barks a lot but like I say I got her cheap.

Well the Messenger Mutt had news for me, bad news, about a combination Geocache and Letterbox that son and I have on Turkey Mountain here in Tulsa. A cache called “Boys Night Out – Firefly Swamp.” This is a geocache that has been on Turkey Mountain since Logan and I put it there in 2007. Apparently somebody took the cache container and left the cache contents in the hiding place. This is very strange since usually thieves (aka “Muggles”) take the whole thing. Well dang it I said to myself, “Why would somebody do something like that.” I had a few other choice thoughts but some of my readers are on the genteel side and might take offense at my choice of words. So i told the Messenger Mutt to disable the cache and I’d fix it.

So Wednesday night after work I headed out to Turkey Mountain to replace the cache. First I went to Target to get a new container. Turkey Mountain is an urban wilderness and part of that is that there is a Target handy. The only thing handier than Target for geocachers is Walmart. Neither one of them is a discount store though. They sell cheap stuff cheap. Why is that a discount store? Hey just saying.

And speaking of cheap I found me a plastic box for $3.97!!! WTG Target!

So, I paid for my new cache container and headed out to Turkey Mountain. I changed into my running duds in the parking lot. Nuff said about that.

And then opened up the back hatch and built me a cache. Everybody has camo duct tape in their car for building geocache containers right?

The finished product. I’m thinking of getting into fine handcrafted Amish furniture. Whaddya think? You want to buy a sideboard from me? You see my Swiss Army Knife, no geocacher is ever without one. See the corkscrew? No Gas Supply person with a gas company is ever out one of those either. But that is another story.

So with my running duds on and a geocache container tucked under my arm like a true ~~trail runner~~ nerd down the Yellow Trail I went.

Remember, if you get lost just go the direction that the yellow arrow points.

To ground zero, the cache site. Sure enough the ammo box is gone and all the contents are in a plastic bag.

And looking at the log book the turkey who took it was nice enough to write a note. Thanks yourself dude or dudette. Don’t let the screen door hit ya where good Lord split ya is my response. It is kind of hard for me to get mad at this. And they did leave the contents undisturbed which is important for the letterboxers among us.

So I packed up everything nice and tidy. Everything that I couldn’t fit in the new box or was just miscellaneous trash I put in the plastic bag and hid it underneath the cache so I could pick it up later and dispose on my way out. People put weird stuff in caches. One guy put a used brillo pad in a cache I owned in town. When I asked how stupid that was he took offense. He said he thought it would be funny.

Still a nice hide, so off I went on the rest of my run.

Along the rocks and through the rocks.

Through the woods.

Underneath the beautiful Oklahoma Sky. I looped back to the cache and picked up the trash I stowed their earlier and headed back to the parking lot.

I hope that it lasts another seven years.

YogisDen.us

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